Users Conned by Cable Con 442
RJ Mansfield writes "MSNBC is running a story on users attempting to con their cable companies being connned. The high-cost filter being sold on Ebay and through email Spam to bypass Pay-Per-View (PPV) digital cable systems is a readily available filter that only temporarily blocks the PPV charges. Users are getting shocked when the cable company then bills the cable user for all of the ordered PPV."
Sounds fair to me (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:5, Interesting)
Sounds fair to me, but knowing the type of people who do this, their first reaction is going to be one of "What a second! We weren't told about this!! We were busy reaching around your jacket to get your wallet, we didn't know that you were grabbing ours in the process!"
Honestly, people dumb enought to getting ripped off while they are trying to rip off someone else deserves what they get.. people beliving spam even more so. After all, a fool and his money is easily parted.
I am however puzzled over one simple fact; can it really be legal in the USofA (where I presume this is happening) to sell such a device? Over here (Norway for those who don't get the clue from my nick) it would be quite illegal to sell something which is intended to allow the (l)user to break the law.
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:5, Insightful)
I am however puzzled over one simple fact; can it really be legal in the USofA (where I presume this is happening) to sell such a device? Over here (Norway for those who don't get the clue from my nick) it would be quite illegal to sell something which is intended to allow the (l)user to break the law.
In the USA it is and it isn't. My understanding is, in most states, it is illegal to sell something for the purpose of committing a crime. As a corrolary to this, it is illegal to use criminal activities as selling point when making a sale. This makes the spam and many of the auctions illegal. It doesn't make selling the device illegal, you just have to limit yourself to the legal uses (filtering non-cabletv signals over coax).
Another example is the crowbar. If you work at a hardware store, and someone wants to buy one, you can assume they want to use it for legal purposes and legally sell it to them. If, however, they come to the counter talking about using it in a burglary or assault, you can not legally sell it. Likewise, you can't put a sign up advertising the "Crowmaster 2000, busts neighbors locks 30% faster" and continue to sell the product legally.
Some state laws may vary. I am not a lawyer, the above should not be considered legal advice.
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, I have smoked turkish tobacco in a water pipe -- even remember reading an article about the "fad" catching on in california or something.
Totally different than cigarettes, and very easy to see why the early settlers found tobacco so appealing.
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:5, Funny)
"How much cable could a Cable Con con if a Cable Con could con cable?"
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:4, Informative)
Saying that the cable company "conned" them is like saying that Walmart is conning you if they make you pay for a chocolate bar you ate while walking around the store.
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:2, Informative)
Maybe we should read the title... "Users conned by Cable Con"
The users, who are trying to screw the cable company, are getting screwed. They are getting screwed because they fell for the "Free Pay-per-View" con.
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:5, Insightful)
People can rationalize it all they want but stealing money by breaking a contract is not okay because you did not take the source of the video.
The company did nothing wroing here and I would love to see the look on some poor bastards face who get a bill with all that p0rn having to tell his wife.
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:3, Insightful)
LOL (Score:4, Funny)
Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
As clearly stated in the Acts of Gord [slashdot.org]: Think, then steal! Think, then steal! Not the other way around!
Seriously: This type of scam works because subscribers don't understand how the system works. If you advertised a device which will allow you to pay no taxes, everyone would catch on quickly.
I can see it now... "For $10 you don't need to file your taxes anymore! The deal of the century!..."
Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously: This type of scam works because subscribers don't understand how the system works. If you advertised a device which will allow you to pay no taxes, everyone would catch on quickly.
Sadly, you'd probably sell a bunch of them. People wouldn't catch on until the IRS came by to visit. For every semi-clueful person out there, there's a tax crank who's saying "Yeah - I'm getting one of these! I told you they had no constitutional right to do that!"
Re:LOL (Score:3, Informative)
Ugh.
My digital cablebox site [24.125.76.224] will tell you what little is known. If anyone wants to help, and designs PCI cards or demodulators for a living...
Theft is theft (Score:5, Funny)
I imagine Nelson (from Simpsons fame) saying "Ha-ha!"
Re:Theft is theft (Score:5, Funny)
You too? (Score:2)
Re:Theft is theft (Score:2)
Ciryon
Scammed... (Score:2, Interesting)
Who uses one of those things? (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously, are there people here on Slashdot who believe that stealing pay-per-view movies is better than just paying the cable company the $3.25 or whatever for a movie? I'm actually curious if anyone reading this site has tried one of these things, and if so, what the rationale behind using it was.
Re:Who uses one of those things? (Score:2)
Re:Who uses one of those things? (Score:2)
Cable descramblers are great! My friend has one for DirecTV. He gets every single channel, all the pornos, all the pay-per-views. There's still nothing on.
Your Friend Doesn't. (Score:2)
Seriously, your friend probably has a hacked satellite reciever box. There is a card inside which can be modified or replaced with "all you can get" info on that card. I don't know any more spacifics because i'm a cable person. However, i know a few guys with direcTV who have done this sort of thing.
Re:Who uses one of those things? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Who uses one of those things? (Score:2)
Well you still had to pay basic $13 a month, but you also got PPV free on 3 channels, SPICE, Cinemax, HBO, Showtime, and all the other channels that used to be 'extended' cable. Gave it up though. It was nice while it lasted.. just wish I'd thought to buy one earlier (or had the balls).
Re:Who uses one of those things? (Score:2)
Ha! I can tell you it's a hell of a lot more than $3.25. I can go to the video store and rent one for much less, and then watch it as many times as I want and on my own schedule, including watching part now and part later. PPV is a flaming rip off. All the cable company has to do is flip a virtual switch (bool PlayMovie;) for you to be able to watch the movie, yet they think it's worth more than a hard copy rental? Some people deal with it by stealing, I deal with it
GPL (Score:5, Insightful)
it is ok to con the PPV channel.
it is ok to con the music industry
it is ok to con Microsoft by copying all their software (for those of you who use it)
but when someone else (other article some time ago) violates the GPL by not opening their code, you rant and rave about 'theft'.
seriously, it is all the same.
the only difference is POV.
Int.
Re:Who uses one of those things? (Score:2)
If it's a movie I really want to see, I've either/and
Seen it in a theater.
Bought it on DVD.
If it doesn't fall in either of those categories, I just wait for it to play on TMN (the Canadian equivalent of HBO/Cinemax), where 10$/month gives me 100s of movies.
BTW, whether the movie is on PPV or TMN/HBO, all you have to do is tape it to watch it at a later time, so you're not restricted to only watching it when it actually plays.
As for porn, why pay when you can download
A single tear rolls down my cheek (Score:5, Insightful)
Not.
Anyone who is stupid enough to buy one of these devices is getting what they deserve. If you want the premium channels, then pay for them. If you think the cable company charges too much, then complain to them and rent DVDs. But that doesn't give you any right to steal the programming.
Re:A single tear rolls down my cheek (Score:5, Insightful)
Sell it to as many suckers as possible. When you reach a critical mass, devise a tool to kill the first product and milk the buggers dry.
X-Box modders watch out as well.
How much does the spirit of an 800lb gorilla weigh?
Re:A single tear rolls down my cheek (Score:2)
"The problem here is consumers conveniently don't employ common sense," she said. "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
marty
Getting busted for movies eh? (Score:5, Funny)
That's much more effective piracy.
Yikes (Score:4, Funny)
Otherwise /.ers everywhere would be either broke or divorced or both.
Re:Yikes (Score:3, Funny)
That is assuming they still have jobs and were ever married...
This is great! (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey they watched pay per veiw, a service that has been around a while and been accepted as being viable, and they are being told to pay for it. They dont even have ground to complain, it would be like getting robbed by a drug dealer who gave you bad drugs!
"well officer, I was trying to by some cocaine, and i found out that it was 50% sugar!"
I just find it funny some people are complaining about about being "cheated" by the product.
Actually this is terrible (Score:4, Insightful)
How about I was buying coke and half of it was cut with cyanide and a few friends died? Do we laugh them? If the nanny state says, "No drugs for you" that doesn't mean con artists get a free ride to do whatever they please.
I see no reason why the users of these devices shouldn't sue the retailers and manufacterers for false advertising. Just because something is contra-band doesnt give you the right to do what you please.
Its illegal to make lethal booby traps for criminals and for a good reason too. Not just to protect the police who might stumble on them (or kids or whomever) but because criminals actually have rights! Due process and all. Look it up sometime in the Constitution, its a fading fad thanks to post 9/11 hysteria but its still a good idea.
Re:Actually this is terrible (Score:5, Interesting)
I see no reason why the users of these devices shouldn't sue the retailers and manufacterers for false advertising. Just because something is contra-band (sic) doesnt (sic) give you the right to do what you please.
Please sue. Then you can testify in court how you attempted theft and were robbed in the process. Then, after you win your civil case and receive your settlement the District Attorney can arrest you for the crime you committed. It will be an open-and-shut case since you have already given sworn testimony admitting to the crime. The DA can give it to his freshest assistant and chose to prosecute to set an example.
Its illegal to make lethal booby traps for criminals and for a good reason too. Not just to protect the police who might stumble on them (or kids or whomever) but because criminals actually have rights! Due process and all. Look it up sometime in the Constitution, its a fading fad thanks to post 9/11 hysteria but its still a good idea.
While it is illegal to make lethal booby traps--the 'nanny state' at work; you are making a false comparison. Sting operations are conducted all the time, and are only called entrapment when the police fail to follow procedure or give due process. What we have here is more equivalent to a police sting operation, which is really a legal confidence game. The case here is criminaly-run, private enterprise sting operation. The victims are brought into this game with intent to commit a crime. Unfortunately, they are caught because of the ploy and consequently have to pay. The fact that the cable company does not press charges is what should be amazing here.
Due process and all. Look it up sometime in the Constitution, its (sic) a fading fad thanks to post 9/11 hysteria but its (sic) still a good idea.
Sorry, recent changes in the law do not mean that due process has been hurled out of the court system. We still have the same judges. We still have the same defense attorneys who thrive on lack of due process. We still have the American Civil Liberties Union to take egregious violations of the Constitution, and laws that support said violations, to the Supreme Court.
However, I am glad that you are incensed when the Constitution is abused by such laws. Perhaps you should be equally incensed when judges chose to legislate from the bench, which belongs to the legislative branch or to loosely interpret the Constitution to suit their needs.
Re:Actually this is terrible (Score:3, Interesting)
So be it. That money could pay off the fines or at least help. No where did I advocate letting them go scott free. In fact, I wonder how many people can even afford to pay them off without sueing the retailer? Hey, that means our cable rates go up if they don't to pay off their default.
>While it is illegal to make lethal booby traps--the 'nanny state' at work; you are
Re:Actually this is terrible (Score:3, Insightful)
Regards to 'B,' I am glad that I live in a country where no branch has full control, legislative, judicial or executive (unless I were the executive). However, we all know there are cases where judges do in fact coerce legislation. Again, I'd rather not drag Slashdot into that debate.
Regards to 'C,' conservatism and liberalism depend on where one sits
Re:Actually this is terrible (Score:2)
Now if the cocaine was cut with cyanide you get into another level where the state is bring the criminal case against the person. As for the cable cable for all purposes this is a legal item just used illegally, excluding any DCMA things. So I would gue
Re:This is great! (Score:2)
"well judge, I thought I was cheating a poor country out of their much needed cash, and I found out that I was being conned"
Re:This is great! (Score:3, Insightful)
These people buying the 'free cable links' are thieves. The people selling the devices are cons looking for dishonest people to fleece. I have no sympathy for someone getting conned when they buy a device that is meant to help them steal.
The illegal drug analogy doesn't work, this is more like buying a set of lock picks then going to the police to complain they don't work on the local liquor store.
Just goes to show... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Just goes to show... (Score:5, Funny)
No, you must have bought a cable modem, this is different...
Who's the real bad guy? (Score:5, Interesting)
A more interresting question is who did more wrong... Is it worse to try and circumvent PPV charges, or are the people selling these devices the real bad guys?
Opinions?
Re:Who's the real bad guy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Who's the real bad guy? (Score:2, Insightful)
If I tell you to commit murder and you do, am I responsible? How about if I stand up on a soapbox and hand out guns to a crowd, telling everyone to commit murder? Those who are accepting the guns and pulling the triggers are still moral agents responsible for their actions.
Re:Who's the real bad guy? (Score:2)
Good point. However, the law in most places would dictate that you had assisted to murder. In some murder cases the people doing the actual killing have gotten milder sentences than those who are determined to be the "mastermind" of the
Does that mean... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Does that mean... (Score:2, Informative)
From the DMCA:
Diabolical (Score:3, Funny)
It's all one big plot! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sueing first ! (Score:2, Funny)
SUE! SUE! SUE!
SKY PPV (Score:5, Interesting)
What they didn't realise that they box has a £50 credit limit so if you hit this then it stops. So people then plugged the box back in, it dial sky and they get a bill for £50
Rus
Re:SKY PPV (Score:2)
Tim
Re:SKY PPV (Score:2)
The PPV dicussed in the article does it right, it works on the basis of signals sent i.e. doesnt matter if the programming was ordered, if it was viewed thats good enough for billing them.
Re:SKY PPV (Score:2)
But that's a cable system. SKY is a satellite broadcast so there is no way to detect that you have watched the program unless your box is connected to the phone line.
Re:SKY PPV (Score:5, Interesting)
Sky sent him out a new card and he sent them back, by return of post, a smart-card which had been throughly decimated with a hammer.
Re:SKY PPV (Score:3, Informative)
A friend used to do this sometimes when he was financially strapped, then next month when he got paid, he'd plug the phone back in and pay for all the purchases. He wasn't really stealing - just delaying the b
Re:SKY PPV (Score:2)
Re:SKY PPV (Score:2, Informative)
Cracking the challenge/response would be very difficult - if it's even 1/2 way as secure as the MediaGuard encryption nobody will get even close. MediaGuard is *very* secure.
Gareth
Ebay link (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ebay link (Score:5, Interesting)
What's really funny is that somone's already bid $7.00 for it. It's a shame he only has one of them - he could make a lot of money. Or is he just bidding against himself?
Re:Ebay link (Score:2)
It happens to be a filter that passes everything
Okay, I actually read the article. It actually does something. It just doesn't do much.
That's what I get for not reading first...
Re:Ebay link (Score:3, Insightful)
It's just plain flawed logic. Digital descramblers (for Motorola systems especially) have been advertised as "Coming Soon" since there is no equivelent to the currently perfected "black box" made for standard analog "scrambling".
That's because digital uses strong crypto (relativel
Re:Ebay link (Score:3, Informative)
It just blocks all the upstream communications. This works because PPV purchases are handled and authorized by the box, and then stored for later retrieval by the headend. What this thing does is block the retrieval process, not the purchase. You could try to periodically destroy
Its sad but. (Score:4, Insightful)
The acceptable use norm of material has been founded on the concept of being able to make a copy of whatever and whenever. Old analogue stuff was way too easy for anyone who had a vcr, digital stuff takes some work but once you have it you can ultimately do whatever you like. This is of course not what they owners/licensees want. And unfortunately this philosophy of anything intangible should ultimately be free as it cost them nothing to reproduce goes down deep in modern society.
What is needed is compromise on both parties, companies need to make things affordable instead of gouging consumers and the consumers have to realize that it cost somebody money and time to produce something so they should pay for it. I know this sounds a bit circular and communistic but the reality is that both camps can be happy if they both cooperate.
But this in the end is wishful thinking as the article clearly points out that there's plenty of people out there ready to cheat the system and complain when they get caught.
Time for another episode of "Smack the /. Editor" (Score:2, Insightful)
Obviously the real scammers here are the selfish, dishonorable scum who sell these 'filters'.
And no, before one of you "information wants to be free" people chime i
Time for another episode of "Smack the poster" (Score:2, Informative)
For once, the editors are okay here. Break it down:
The "Cable Con" part referred to in the title: "You can get free PPV, if you buy this thingy. Con your cable comany!"
However, those people who think they are going to con themselves get conned, because they actually bought a worthless piece of crap. See how the users got conned by a cable con?
Re:Time for another episode of "Smack the /. Edito (Score:2, Insightful)
You Can't Cheat An Honest Man (Score:4, Insightful)
Though I have to say I'm slightly puzzled by the consensus here that it is wrong not to pay for content and the 'victims' deserved all they get, but elsewhere on Slashdot there is outrage when action is taken against filesharers. When is copyright material not copyright material?
Re:You Can't Cheat An Honest Man (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You Can't Cheat An Honest Man (Score:4, Interesting)
-P2P has noninfringing uses as has been pointed out. "Steal cable for free" filters do not (unless they are simply off-the-shelf coax parts being sold as such).
-Slashdot does not speak with one voice. Many people post here. The individuals who express outrage over P2P crackdowns in other threads are not necessarily the ones giggling at this story.
-P2P crackdowns are just depressing; they're yet another example of corporate dominance and control. This cable filter story, on the other hand, introduces the concepts of greed and gullibility. A little schadenfreude shouldn't be surprising.
Re:You Can't Cheat An Honest Man (Score:3, Insightful)
My take is it that when I order a PPV, I typically know in advance what I am going to get. A fight. A porn show. Whatever. Its a one-time thing. Its not like something I intend to keep for quite some time. I might even time-shift such a thing. But I feel I have incurred obligation to pay for the service rendered, and have no problem doing so.
With music, I have no idea what I like until I sample some of it. I collect particular types of music that mean something to m
Re:You Can't Cheat An Honest Man (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's be honest, when you order pay per view porn, there's no way to know if the chicks will look good, or if they'll try to cram some sort of ill-fitting storyline into the movie, instead of admitting that the target market just wants to see people fucking. Same with the fight, sure you know who will be in the fight, but sometimes the fight sucks. Sometimes the dude gets knocked out in the first minute, while you were busy getting beers for your friends.
There's no guarantee placed on any content. Why do feel that you need to pretend that there's some sort of rational reason to steal music, but not cable? Either steal them both gleefully, or don't steal either of them at all.
Um so then what if... (Score:3, Insightful)
Or, if you can't clear the memory, box um "dies" and takes the bill with it. Return box to cable company and get replacement.
I'm not saying of course these are legal or ethical but I'm just saying that if someone's stealing PPV what would prevent them from doing either of these? Rule number one when you are stealing a service is you don't call tech support. If your box quits working, then, make sure the box *quits working*.
- JoeShmoe
.
Man buys defective burglary tools (Score:2)
Police say an arrest has already been made, of the purchaser for possession of burglary tools, when he attempted to file a complaint.
Film, well, you know when.
It's times like these when I fully understand the maxim of W.C. Fields, "A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place."
To which he added, "Never smarten up a chump."
KFG
Similar thing happened to me :) (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, i know, it was a really low thing to do on my part.. but i knew i was not the only one using the account, and the real person that owned the account would never end up having to pay the bill. So i felt i only screwed over a "big company".
I was young and dumb
Anyways, a couple of months later, my ordinary phonebill dropped down in the mailbox. It was a *little* bit bigger than usual. There were no additional notes on the bill and there was no warning about legal actions from the company, so i payed the bill and kept my mouth shut.
I got what i deserved and i learned my lesson
Re:Similar thing happened to me :) (Score:2, Insightful)
how did i get caught? well, i rotated accounts, but there are logs of everything.
How you got caught: A.N.I. (Score:5, Informative)
While a 1-{800 | 888 | 877 | 866} number is free to the calling party, except for some nefarious call redirection scams, it is NOT free to the receiving party. They pay for the call. They can receive ANI information detailing which phone number is calling them.
Unlike Caller-ID information which is transmitted in-band (on the same line) between the first and second telephone ring and can be blocked by the dialing party, the ANI service is transmitted off-band and CANNOT be blocked when you call an 800 number. It's always there.
revenge? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm not sure (Score:3, Interesting)
It's my guess that you need a -real- cable descrambler (as in, one from the official cable company) to use the coax filter, and that cable box needs to send data to the cable company to work, so the coax filter blocks one half of the transaction or something. This puzzles me, though, because I think getting the legitimate descrambler box would cost more than it would to get a "pirate" cable box anyways.
Anybody know more than I do about this?
(P.S. NO I DON'T STEAL CABLE. Why would I anyways, all they ever do is play shitty movies that involve naked women and exploding cars and crap.)
Re:I'm not sure (Score:4, Informative)
All in all, this little filter does the same thing as leaving the phone cord unplugged on older networks where the cable network wasn't two-way. I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who thought they would get away with it. There would be no use in trying to convince the tech that the DCT is broken either. They have diagnostic tools and whatnot. Even if you were to convince a technician that the DCT is broken, and they swapped it for a new one, guess what? You're still billed for those PPV movies that are remaining in the DCT. They clean those out once the DCT is returned and put them on your bill, sometimes as much as 6 months later
(disclaimer: i worked for at&t broadband chicago until about 2 months ago)
Scary... (Score:3, Insightful)
While a couple of articles back these same people were defending the virtues of file "sharing" networks, where users are comfortably ignoring the fact that they have agreed *not* to redistribute the copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holders.
Really, make up your minds: either file sharing a la KaZaa is ok and the people who bought these devices shouldn't pay for the content they "downloaded" for free or file sharing a la KaZaa is *not* ok and the people who bought these devices should pay for the content they downloaded.
It's very simple: you want content X? You pay for it. Why? Because the content provider says so and we have given them the power to be like that.
Cable Con (Score:2, Funny)
Surprised if Cable Con doesn't sue slashdot for slander.
Make the voices STOP! (Score:3, Insightful)
Consider....
Invoke the DMCA! (Score:2)
stealing? (Score:2, Interesting)
SUX.... (Score:2)
Otherwise you end up like these people and get stuck saying, "What porn? I didn't order any porn honey..." (mumbling)"GOD DAMN FILTER!"
Something similiar in Spain (Score:5, Interesting)
There was a huge underground industry around - it got to the point were people where actually selling cards with PICs on them which would reprogram themselves automatically, getting the info from the satellite signal.
Obviously the satellite company knew about it, as did everybody else. I cannot think of anyone that didn't have one of these cards (if they had satellite obviously). The TV company didn't do anything about it for a couple of years. Why? Market share. The more people that signed up for their service and got a box, at a higher price than it would be with the compentition, the better in the long run for the company. People were signing up left right and center with the expectation of being able to unlock all the channels.
And then all of a sudden - clamp down! The company started verifying the user info in a different way an bingo - millions of subscribers that are addicted to 24/7 PPV.
Why bother trying to warn people? (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Trying to break the law by stealing cable content
2) Complete morons
Why is anyone spending time and money taking out adverts on Ebay to warn them?
Re:Why bother trying to warn people? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think most peple hate the **AA because of their idiotic attempts to control content that damage fair use rights. And the fact that none of the money goes to the artists. And their manipulative practices. And the fact that modern music is so bland and dull..and...(that's enough)
Legally not a scam (Score:3, Informative)
playboy and spice? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Wipe The Memory (Score:4, Funny)
If only your statment could be applied to breeding...
Re:question (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Fighting fire with fire (Score:2)
Here's the difference - plain and simple. (Score:3, Insightful)
In a cable service, you have channels that are eligible for and ineligible for when you pay a certain rate. This is the agreement that you have with your cable company. Obtaining more channels (or PPV features) without paying for them in illegal.
P2P is simply a concept - technology if you will - that allows machines to share files. No matter how you look at peer-to-peer transfers, I look at it in its basic parts: machines (peers) sending data to other machines (peers). P2P's concep