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Battlestar Galactica Comes To an End

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the so-say-we-all dept.

Sci-Fi 852

On Friday evening, Battlestar Galactica ended its four-season run as one of the most popular science fiction shows in recent history. 2.4 million people tuned in for the finale, and reactions to the ending — positive, negative, and often a mix of both — are springing up all over the internet, as are tributes and retrospectives. Producers Ron Moore and David Eick held a Q&A session after the finale to discuss certain aspects of the story and spell out the final status of several plot lines. Fans of the show will have a chance to see the Cylon side of the story this fall in a two-hour TV movie titled "The Plan," and we've previously discussed the spin-off prequel series, Caprica, the pilot for which will come out on April 21st. Be warned: these links and the following discussion will contain spoilers.

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852 comments

it rocked (0, Troll)

Maserati (8679) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288265)

excellent ending

Re:it rocked (5, Interesting)

Davemania (580154) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288345)

The god explanation is such a cop out. It doesn't explain Kara or why it doesn't just try and influence or outright stop the genocide in the first place. I thought up to the Opera house scene, it was great and when Galen went nuts (he couldn't control his emotion when the fate of two civilization are in stake ?), there was just more questions raised than answers from that point on.

Re:it rocked (5, Insightful)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288583)

The god explanation is such a cop out.

Choices to tie together a rambling, make it up as you go jumble of story bits:
1. God did it.
2. It was all a dream.
3. To be continued... in a new series!

Re:it rocked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288857)

Or you have the Futurama option of destroying the universe.

Not always (4, Insightful)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288863)

The god explanation is such a cop out.

A lot of times when you see something like that, it is a cop out. But not in this case.

The story - in its entirety - was about something divine moving mankind/cylonkind like pawns. People have destinies in this show, real ones. All throughout.

So it's not like they just slapped a Deity into the ending to tie things up. Nothing else at that point would have sufficed.

Re:it rocked (1, Interesting)

JCY2K (852841) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288397)

Yes, yes it did; except for all of the unanswered questions. 1) What the hell was Starbuck? 2) How did future Baltar and Six 'talk' to present Six and Baltar? 3) How the frak did they find new Earth? Deus Ex Machina much? Also there's the question that's raised but not answered of why would everyone vote to give up all technology more advanced than a pointy stick and live with prelingual natives which was a major wtf... In brief, it tied up some but all of the strings (mostly the emotional and not the intellectual) into a bow. P.S. May have cried a little when Roslyn died.

Re:it rocked (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288439)

All three of those questions were answered. You just didn't pay attention.

Re:it rocked (1)

Macgruder (127971) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288453)

I caught the answers to 2 and 3. But what about #1? That one escaped me.

Re:it rocked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288533)

Angel - with a usually dirty face and potty mouth?

Re:it rocked (3, Funny)

Chyeld (713439) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288623)

Seemed fairly obvious to me:Jesus.

Died, resurrected, then ascended once the job was done.

Re:it rocked (1)

FuturePastNow (836765) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288749)

She was dead. But she still had a mission to carry out, so she did it.

Re:it rocked (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288517)

1) She's god. 2) They are angels. 3) God showed them the way through the song and Kara.
Deus Ex Machina is exactly what happened. In the most literal sense possible.

As for the technology, I think I understood the choice. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I think I understood why they chose the way they did.

PS. I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye

Re:it rocked (4, Insightful)

Trillan (597339) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288563)

No, Deus Ex Machina requires the resolution to drop in that moment, without story support. God suddenly appears, and fixes things.

That's not at all what BSG did. BSG pre-seeded their resolutions a year or more in advance. Sure, they were miracles, but they were miracles we'd been told a year ago would happen, all the finale did was show us exactly how they happened.

You can not like the way it was resolved, but that doesn't mean it was Deus Ex Machina.

Re:it rocked (2, Interesting)

colenski (552404) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288625)

My interpretation is that Kara Thrace was an angel or a guide sent by God. The foreshadowing for this was provided a few episodes back, when Kara gave Adama an angel figurine for the prow of the model ship he was building in his quarters.

Re:it rocked (4, Insightful)

patro (104336) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288799)

excellent ending

No, it was a mess. Deus ex machina is the easy way out.

Wonder if it got any better (1)

rackserverdeals (1503561) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288281)

I was following the series in the beginning, but haven't for a long time.

I still have the program set in my DVR but haven't bothered to watch since starbuck ran off to find earth and ran into the cylons.

The turning point for me was when they used the term "final 5" in the show. That should have been something for the viewers, and maybe the humans to figure out, but when the cylons didn't know who the final 5 were, that just seemed stupid.

Re:Wonder if it got any better (1)

gerddie (173963) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288325)

Well, when you continue to watch it, you will find out that it indeed makes sense ;)

spoiler alert (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288407)

Snape Kills Adama

Re:spoiler alert (1)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288441)

I can't believe Cavil is Admiral Adama's father!

Re:spoiler alert (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288691)

It's a trap!

Oh wait, wrong admiral.

Re:spoiler alert (1)

TheTurtlesMoves (1442727) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288757)

With Rosebud [xkcd.com] .

Re:Wonder if it got any better (5, Funny)

lordofthechia (598872) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288699)

***SPOILER***

The Cylons reach their kill limit and shut down.

Serious life question (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288283)

Ask yourself: Do you want to be just a spectator of other people's imaginings?

Re:Serious life question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288313)

Awen't we just the cuutest wittle angwy angsty teenager? Yes we are! Yes we are!

Re:Serious life question (1)

Trillan (597339) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288357)

Sometimes, yes, I want to be a spectator. Other times I want to be a creator.

Life is multi-dimensional. Try to be multi-dimensional yourself.

Re:Serious life question (1)

Angostura (703910) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288461)

"just"? No. Other than that yes.

Battlestar Galactica (1, Interesting)

Narpak (961733) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288287)

I watched every episode of Battlestar Galactic so, with a mix of interest and boredom. On one hand I really life science fiction. Lets be honest, I love spaceships, space battles, people killing each other in spaces, monsters killing people, and most variations thereof. But the "spiritual" aspects of Battlestar Galactica has been a bit of a yawn for me.

They got a decent production, good actors (for the most part), decent costumes and design, and plots and episodes ranging from very entertaining, to out right silliness and cheese.

That being said; I will enjoy seeing how they try to connect it all together and I probably will check out the spin-off series if/when it hit the stream.

P.S. Bring back Firefly ffs!

SPOILER! (0, Troll)

Samschnooks (1415697) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288333)

This is what happens. It is discovered that all of the survivors are Cylons (How else are they to reproduce with one another?!). Then then give up the war, sing Kumbaya, and live happily ever after. Execpt for Cmdr Adama; he commits suicide after discovering that he is what he most hates in the Universe.

Re:Battlestar Galactica (4, Insightful)

gerddie (173963) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288487)

IMNSHO, science fiction is not about spaceships, space battles, people killing each other in spaces, monsters killing people, and most variations thereof. Science fiction is about exploring possible technical advances and their implications, as well as human nature in extreme situations and the like. In that, BSG has become really intriguing at times - just think of the suicide bombing at the beginning of the third season. Without the spiritual part of BSG it would have been just another space opera, probably fun to watch, to entertain, but certainly no to make you think.

PS: You are right about Firefly, though.

Re:Battlestar Galactica (4, Insightful)

Narpak (961733) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288591)

IMNSHO, science fiction is not about spaceships, space battles, people killing each other in spaces, monsters killing people, and most variations thereof. Science fiction is about exploring possible technical advances and their implications, as well as human nature in extreme situations and the like.

Oh I did not mean to imply that Science Fiction can't be both. I also enjoy lots of science fiction literature that involves no, or only marginally, killing of any variation what so ever. For me Science Fiction means any narrative or story set in a world at a higher technological stage than us. I was just naming the battles and killing parts specifically since it tied into my thoughts about Battlestar Galactica.

As for the making you think part I like when stories makes me think new things. Unfortunately in this case I have read, watched and pondered about a lot of interesting or outright weird things for what begins to seem like a long time now; so BG didn't introduce me to anything new in that regard. However, if it did for others that is indeed great. A broadening of ones horizons is always a good thing in my opinion.

P.S. 2 min of furious shouting for Firefly.

Re:Battlestar Galactica (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288773)

IMNSHO, science fiction is not about spaceships, space battles, people killing each other in spaces, monsters killing people, and most variations thereof. Science fiction is about exploring possible technical advances and their implications, as well as human nature in extreme situations and the like.

Yeah, but a 40 minute BSG episode = 10 minutes of special effects as mentioned + 30 minutes of teen soap opera, leaving no time for any of that interesting stuff.

It also followed the incredibly worn and tired old "sci-fi" formula of any story containing high tech must contain a corresponding quantity of ultra low end mythology and miracles and similar such foolishness. Please. Is there any "sci-fi" out there that avoids that tired old cliche?

Re:Battlestar Galactica (3, Insightful)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288739)

The last two episodes wasted two much time on flashbacks.

Character development was never a strong point in BG and to have that be the focus on the last episodes was a waste.

On the plus side, at least the president died.

Five minutes too long (4, Interesting)

NormalVisual (565491) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288341)

The finale was reasonably good, but I would have preferred the last scene to have been Adama on top of the hill next to Laura's grave. What follows after that, although necessary to explain the existence of the "imaginary" Gaius/Six characters, seemed awfully cheesy to me. I'm talking "Galactica 1980" cheesy. I also didn't find the universal acceptance of the "hey, let's discard every scrap of technology and be cavemen!" idea to be realistic or practical in the least.

Re:Five minutes too long (2, Insightful)

BigBuckHunter (722855) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288415)

The finale was reasonably good, but I would have preferred the last scene to have been Adama on top of the hill next to Laura's grave.

Agreed. I wish that they would have kept the suspended disbelief unexplained, much like the force was before metacloriates (blame firefox for not having a star-wars enabled spell checker). The god thing was a major cop-out for those of us that don't believe in magic.

BBH

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

Ultra64 (318705) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288459)

The god thing was a major cop-out for those of us that don't believe in magic.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. You can believe they were uber-advanced aliens if you want. Probably the original series' "Beings of Light".

Re:Five minutes too long (2, Insightful)

RightwingNutjob (1302813) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288541)

What about "The Prophets" a la DS9? Or Stargate's Ascension. There they're called aliens. Here they're called angels. It may not be intellectually satisfying to those hard rationalists who eschew any notion of spirituality in SF, but it's a common thread, going back to Arthur C Clarke and beyond.

Re:Five minutes too long (3, Insightful)

FuturePastNow (836765) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288805)

Right, and I got the impression that the show's God (since "it doesn't like to be called that" as Angel Six said) falls into that sufficiently advanced category. Perhaps an ascended survivor of a much earlier cycle of death and rebirth, who still takes interest in the process.

Re:Five minutes too long (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288455)

I'd have ended it even earlier, with adama still in the raider.

If you aren't going to explicitly show adama fly into the sun, at least let me believe thats what he did. Why would he want to live the rest of his life away from society, including his son? Why would he want to leave a raptor there for someone else to find?

Two changes that could've been made (4, Insightful)

StandardCell (589682) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288465)

1. Less talk and more subtlety. This means very little or no explicit dialog, no in-your-face pictures of dancing robots (but maybe Baltar and Six in front of an electronics store), and Jimi Hendrix's version of All Along The Watchtower playing on some radio in the background of some guy on the street. As it stands, it was too overt and tried too hard to make its point for viewers already accustomed to needing to think a bit more.

2. What probably would've happened after Lee recommended all technology go away is a split between those who still wanted it and those who didn't. The two sides would create a pact to keep separate from each other, the small minority of technology-loving people going to live on a small continent off the west coast of Africa... Said continent, of course, to have been destroyed at some future point in time by natural disaster and essentially all technology along with it. This would solve what would be an obvious dilemma and split in viewpoints of the remaining people while reasonably explaining what would've happened to their technology.

Re:Two changes that could've been made (1)

tmosley (996283) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288567)

Also, it should have been 10,000-20,000 years ago rather than 150,000 years ago. Even without using advanced technology, they would still have built a reasonably advanced civilization within a generation or two (think Egypt).

The idea of them building an advanced civilization on an Atlantic continent is pretty good, but they should have been destroyed by cylons, or a war, rather than a natural disaster. The dregs of that civilization might integrate themselves into the other developing civilizations of the world, causing the flowering of advanced civilizations around the world about 6000 years ago.

Re:Two changes that could've been made (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288653)

It was 150k years ago to explain Hera being the mitochondrial eve and essentially all of us being descendants of humans and cylons.

subtlety schmutlety (4, Interesting)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288717)

1. Less talk and more subtlety. This means very little or no explicit dialog, no in-your-face pictures of dancing robots (but maybe Baltar and Six in front of an electronics store),

Serious question: what the hell for? What do you gain from subtlety? A bit of smugness that you "worked out" the oh-so-subtle meaning? The right to ignore the show's message, and still claim to enjoy the show because you "didn't see it that way"?

It's popular lately for all messages in media to be subtle, but that's just a cop-out so it can be mass-sold to everyone, and the many will buy it. It doesn't actually add value. If anything, it dilutes it.

Re:Two changes that could've been made (3, Insightful)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288809)

1. Less talk and more subtlety. This means very little or no explicit dialog, no in-your-face pictures of dancing robots

The extreme spoon feeding of the plot was annoying and insulting. It was also beneath the show.

When Starbuck was dialing the jump address, we really did not need all the flashes. I would have been fine with one flash to remind some where the music notes came from, but not a minutes worth.

Also, the Boomer flashback was even more unnecessary.

Re:Two changes that could've been made (3, Informative)

lordofthechia (598872) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288837)

. What probably would've happened after Lee recommended all technology go away is a split between those who still wanted it and those who didn't.

I know, that was the moment I could no longer suspend disbelief. The writers worked so hard to make the 40-50 thousand refugees believable (with conflicts, indecision, even mutiny and greed). But on what would have been the most shocking decision to date they all suddenly agreed?

I agree with you on the split, but the dissenters could have lived on an island, away from the rest, along with all their culture and tech. Wasn't there a battlestar called Atlantia? So they could have explained the dissenters as one of the lost civilizations of myth by having them don the name of one of the lost battlestars of the fleet.

Re:Five minutes too long (2, Interesting)

Shrubbman (3807) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288473)

The finale was reasonably good, but I would have preferred the last scene to have been Adama on top of the hill next to Laura's grave.

I would have stopped it at Kara kissing Anders goodbye and the fleet flying off into the sun, butthat's just me.

Re:Five minutes too long (1, Troll)

Fantastic Lad (198284) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288479)

I'm talking "Galactica 1980" cheesy. I also didn't find the universal acceptance of the "hey, let's discard every scrap of technology and be cavemen!" idea to be realistic or practical in the least.

This was my general reaction to the whole series.

The difference here was that I didn't have to put up with a solid hour of bad lighting and claustrophobic camera work. I tuned in just to watch the thing die, and much to my surprise, I actually quite enjoyed the show for the first time, thanks to a liberal dose of Green and Blue. Other than that, the show was still "Stupid and Uninsightful" masquerading as "Intelligent". (Just pretend we're shooting "West Wing" and people will think it's clever, and they'll even swallow the whole, "Bad things happen to Good people more Often than they Don't" line of B.S..)

Still, congrats where congrats are due: It's VERY impressive when a series of such high production values sees itself through and ends on a strong note. Based on that, I can almost forgive the fact I hated practically every inch of it from the get-go, but somehow I suspect the two things are related. Formula applied after watching the first half dozen episodes of a series: "If I REALLY like it, it will have to struggle to survive or be Doctor Who, (which like the Muppet Show, exists in its own category where silly walks are cool). If I REALLY hate it, it will get lots of seasons, win too many awards and within four years it will be honored by the freekin' U.N. of all places while I quietly simmer in disgust."

Angels? You should all be embarrassed.

-FL

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

ucblockhead (63650) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288489)

First: if you actually paid attention, they weren't discarding "every scrap" of technology by any means. Adama kept a Raptor, for Gods' sakes! Most people brought "supplies". They were just discarding the large scale stuff.

Tell me which is more practical:

* Try to make a city out of remnants of technology that is falling apart and cannot be replaced without any real knowledge of agriculture, etc., hoping you can get enough crops in to feed 30k plus wherever you happen to settle before winter arrives.

* Have everyone split up into groups of 1-3 and join small tribes of natives who already know how to survive on the planet, and who will likely greet you as gods.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

anagama (611277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288613)

Option 1 is more practical.

* Even a small spare backup generator would massively increase the chance of survival by allowing a small amount of refrigeration -- food storage is a serious issue. Heat can also be important.

* All that metal that was thrown into the sun would make gardening implements. Tilling the earth with sticks is a real bitch. Also, it is so much easier to cut wood with metal saws than with sticks. What are they going to live in to protect against hypothermia in cold areas.

* It will be at least 6 months till crops come in -- a few items in a backpack aren't going to be enough. Aside from that, while Gaius may know how to farm, I doubt enough of the rest do. That means hunting -- it's going to be hard to make hunting effective hunting tools without other tools and even harder to learn how to hunt.

* Medicine/splints/etc. -- A simple thing like a broken arm will become life threatening.

* Small groups are less likely to survive because people would actually have to rely on each other to a larger degree -- one person breaks an arm, they all die. As for the tribes, the greater liklihood is a flip out and killing spree. These people are outsiders and not being members of the tribal group, likely to be seen as enemies.

This could go on and on. The whole "chuck everything" bit was really hard to swallow.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

blindseer (891256) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288499)

Agreed. I find it difficult to believe any parent, even one so opposed to technology as those in BSG, would toss such simple tools as pots, pans, wrenches, hammers, knives, etc. into the sun. Even such simple technology as radios, firearms, lights, refrigeration, and such would serve very useful in assuring survival. I could imagine them abandoning the prospect of returning to space travel but they have established that many of their craft are capable of landing on a planet. Land the craft and use them as shelter for as long as they prove suitable. Even the Galactica, as busted up as it was, could be salvaged for the material for building shelters and tools.

Perhaps they learned some kind of lesson that would make living out of spacecraft that are parked on the surface as counterproductive but I missed it in the "New Caprica" story arc.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288527)

I also didn't find the universal acceptance of the "hey, let's discard every scrap of technology and be cavemen!" idea to be realistic or practical in the least.

Agreed, it's one thing to say we don't bring the nukes and all the baggage of death and destruction, but cavemen life was often ugly and short. Want to die of a little infection because there's no antibiotics? Great. Impure water supply? Oops. They couls have done a much beter job setting themselves up as some guardian type of thing that'll slowly to steer them in a better direction. But then i think it was five minutes and one season too long, and I was more sure of that than ever after the season finale. It was good, now let it rest.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

gerddie (173963) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288549)

Actually, I liked it this way. For a moment I was afraid they would end it exactly such a way like you wished for. To me that would have seemed way too pathetic.

Re:Five minutes too long (5, Insightful)

Wintermute2_0 (166842) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288587)

Agreed. The scene with Adama on the hill was such a lovely coda to a series that had been playing with concepts of death, rebirth, and change for all four of its seasons. But then came those tacky five minutes which were made even worse with the inclusion of stock footage of those oh-so-threatening Japanese robots.

So, the moral of BSG is that I'm supposed to be afraid of my Roomba?

The hokey spiritualism also irritated me, but it seems like said hokey spiritualism is now a prerequisite for most televised SF (cf. Lost, Heroes). The networks seem to think the masses need a healthy serving of God with their spaceships and time travel or else they might change the channel.

Still, the first hour of the was as good as anything the series has ever done. And I liked how the original series' theme music was incorporated into the scene of the fleet heading for the sun. And Olmos should get an Emmy nod for breathing life into a character that could easily have turned into self-parody in the hands of a lesser actor.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

anagama (611277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288833)

I was disappointed in how it ended up falling into the "Sci-Fear" subcategory of Sci-Fi, you know, the "technology is bad, stop the mad scientists, they're all out to get us" type.

While true that technology does help people do bad things, the amount of people helped in positive ways is vastly larger. Farming is a great example of the practical aspects of technology, but one which we take for granted. With no tools of any kind, it's a 24/7 exercise in bone breaking labor for scant rewards -- with effective tools, starvation isn't a constant companion.

Yet in BSG, technology is so bad they have to chuck it into the sun. Lame Sci-Fear.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

hemp (36945) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288849)

So, the moral of BSG is that I'm supposed to be afraid of my Roomba?

Yes, the moral of BSG is that the Unabomber is correct. Technology is evil.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288789)

>>I also didn't find the universal acceptance of the "hey, let's discard every scrap of technology and be cavemen!" idea to be realistic or practical in the least.

practical yes, realistic, yes.

You must remember they can't produce a whole lot more new tech anyways. they couldn't build anything much more complicated than than pumps, etc. With all the equipment they left behind on all the places they visited equipment wise They just didn't have enough. The people while they had tech weren't designing new clothes, they weren't living much differently than cave people anyways. A chance to start over without struggles is something that they needed.

For the geeks living in their basements. imagine that you couldn't order any new games, or computer parts. after a while even your boredom would cause you to go outside and try something new.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

Wrath0fb0b (302444) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288827)

I also didn't find the universal acceptance of the "hey, let's discard every scrap of technology and be cavemen!" idea to be realistic or practical in the least.

After 4 years fleeing from genocidal, nuclear-armed, software-hacking, technological abominations chasing me through the empty expanse of space you might think differently. The survivors in BSG have been fighting against the fruits of technology, why would go right back to building a technological civilization?

Moreover, the fleet does not have the requisite technology to rebuild an entire civilization. It was already straining credulity that Adama continued to have whiskey and the doc continued to have cigarettes long after the supplies should have run out. They conveniently had a mining ship and a farming ship, ok I'll buy that for the time being, but their supply of the rudimentary things that make society keep going had to give out eventually. Shit, I was sort of pissed that they had a bunch of steel lying around to repair Galactica -- reminded me of Voyager where every episode a new shuttlecraft would appear.

That said, it would have been entirely appropriate if a few civilians decided to take their ships and jump off in some random direction.

Re:Five minutes too long (1)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288841)

I was expecting them to build the pyramids. That would have been a neat way to connect things.

Tricia Helfer in Porn? (2)

TheTyrannyOfForcedRe (1186313) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288353)

I'm praying that the end of BSG opens the door to Tricia Helfer starring in a few pornos. My god, that would rock my world! Come on Tricia, give it a try. Just one little lesbian scene. All the girls are doin' it. There's even a song about it on the radio. Puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!

Re:Tricia Helfer in Porn? (2)

TheTyrannyOfForcedRe (1186313) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288419)

Ok, I'm so lame that I went to google and typed in "Tricia Helfer porn." To my utter surprise and amazement a bunch of hits came up. I clicked a few and found tons of real, topless Tricia Helfer pics. Thank the gods! Made my f'ing weekend...

Also, how is my comment above -1 flamebait? I could understand -1 loser or -1 pervert but flamebait? Show me one straight male BSG fan who doesn't want to see Ms. Helfer doin' the nasty and I'll show you someone who is either dead, gay, or a robot posing as a human.

Re:Tricia Helfer in Porn? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288663)

You didn't know she was in Playboy? I, uh... researched this matter shortly after the debut of the mini-series.

says more about the competition (0)

petes_PoV (912422) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288385)

one of the most popular science fiction shows in recent history.

I gave up on it many years ago - somewhere during season 2, having only watched it sporadically until then. In the end boredom with the plot, lack of engagement with the characters - except the cylons, I really hope they "won". a complete lack credibility with the science and finally the realisation that it didn't really have a story to tell, meant that I found better things to do. That it was popular, even in it's own mind, is a bigger criticism with the other programmes that purport to be SF, than of this rather lame, self-indulgent and overly long show.

What was it's biggest or possibly only contribution? frak

Re:says more about the competition (1)

Luscious868 (679143) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288759)

I agree. I thought the initial made for TV movie was good enough that I'd give the show a chance. I really loved the first few episodes but I gradually lost interest. Stopped watching completely somewhere during season 2.

I like it with one exception (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288403)

I think Moore finished his space opera in a satisfying manner without fucking the whole thing up like Lucas did with his opera.

He played out a few characters. Killed a couple. And left a few strings untied with starbuck's angelic disappearance.

LOVED the cracking battle sequence and the physical layout matching the Cobal opera house dream. And didn't see it coming even when they made a lame excuse for needing to move that resurrection fish tank to the CIC for some reason.

I was worried as it seemed the whole thing was falling apart after "Earth" turned out to be a dud. I was worried that with all the new back-story cropping up, that all we were going to get was a lead-in to the new Caprica series.

He totally Six Sensed me with the aborted Earth. Didn't see it coming. I'm sure we can go back at see that we weren't shown any continents on the first planet and we had all the clues to know it wasn't earth the first time.

The thing that made no sense was little Adama's imposing has agrarian dream on 30K other people. We had a gritty reality of 12 colonies of conflicted individuals that lived in a technological world. And pretty boy wants everyone to go back to humping sod because he thinks it will be a better way. And daddy wants to throw a whole fucking fleet of FTL ships into the sun? WTF! Putting all our eggs in one blue-green basket makes us less secure! And not one person disagrees after all the gritty discord we've seen up to now. Made no fucking sense to me.

Re:I like it with one exception (4, Informative)

Sancho (17056) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288689)

We were mislead at the end of Season 3. After Starbuck reappears, we're taken on a tour of the galaxies and shown Earth, implying that this is what Starbuck found:
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/File:Earth_(RDM).jpg [battlestarwiki.org]

You can clearly make out the United States of America.

I don't know if we saw continents once Galactica actually made it to Earth. Haven't found a screenshot of that.

Re:I like it with one exception (1)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288721)

Yeah they did - when the camera shot pans up from the moon to Earth, you can clearly see Africa.

Re:I like it with one exception (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288751)

I guess we're talking about three on-screen sequences.

1) End of season 3.
2) Season 4, Episode 10 (when they find what they've been calling Earth all series.)
3) End of Season 4, (when they find what we call Earth.)

I was interesting in seeing if we'd seen continents on 2.

Unsatisfied (5, Interesting)

merky1 (83978) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288421)

The finale was a decent episode. But I think that ever since the destruction of the HUB, the show was rudderless.

I think that this is one of the problems when the central premise of a show is a "mystery." It always ends up that the big reveal is a huge disappointment.

Also, what happened to all of the basestars that Cavil had under control? Not to mention, the "millions" of cylons on the colonies. Wouldn't they lay out to search for the final five to rebuild resurrection?

I think the finale needed a 20-30 year jump forward to show aging skinjobs scanning earth, and not detecting technology, continue searching for the final five. It would have given closure to the show's overall theme. Instead we just get a "spiritual" explanation. The reason I feel this way is back when they found the temple of jupiter, Cavil advocated nuking the planet and spending an infinite amount of time searching for earth. Even without resurrection, I think that the remaining cylons would have the same sentiment.

The other thing that had not been really discussed, and will hopefully come out in the next few entries, is what happened to the artificial intelligence that was the original cylon race? Maybe "the plan" will give us more insight to cylon society.

Re:Unsatisfied (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288731)

Also, what happened to all of the basestars that Cavil had under control? Not to mention, the "millions" of cylons on the colonies. Wouldn't they lay out to search for the final five to rebuild resurrection?

Well, since the resurrection hub was destroyed, and they can't pro-create amongst themselves, they will slowly die off. Only the Centurions will be able to continue on.

Great 4.5 Year Show, Weak Ending (5, Interesting)

Faizdog (243703) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288425)

Honestly,
I thought it was weak. If you watched "BSG The Last Frakkin Special" that aired last Monday, there was a key comment in there. Ron Moore said that they were at a loss on how to end the series, and then they walked in and decided that it's about the characters.

That told me that they didn't know how to end everything, and decided to fumble through it and fill up time with these character things.

There were so many big stories that needed more elaboration, what was Starbuck, how does the one true god fit in? There was mention that he was a jealous god of the other Lords of Kobol. No mention of them? Starbuck, the one who believed in the polytheistic Lords of Kobol so much that she went back against orders for Athena's Arrow was instead an agent of the monotheistic Cylon God? That's it, head six and baltar, their story just ends so quickly? Things didn't really jive, and that disappointed me. After the whole Tigh and Caprica-6 love each other so much that they had a baby, and Ellen was jealous, that just ended? All of a sudden, we find out Baltar, the womanizer, loved Caprica-6?

It was not thought out, and by the end, they had no idea what to do. I'm really disapointed in BSG. And this ending makes me appreciate Babylon 5 even more. The value of a well thought out, planned and executed story arc where all the pieces fit together because they've been planned that way is AWESOME.

For about 4 and a half years, BSG was the best show I'd ever seen. However, ever since they came back with this last batch of 10 episodes, it's been weak. The big issues, the analysis of humanity in dire straits, the realistic depiction of events, I felt that all fell apart. BSG was still a good show, and the ending sentimental and did provide closure. It wasn't bad, but I had so much more high expectations of the ending, for it all to tie in rather than what we got. I mean that's why us SciFi fans are such continuity freaks, we want it all to fit, that's what makes it more real for us.

Re:Great 4.5 Year Show, Weak Ending (1)

Narpak (961733) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288661)

I mean that's why us SciFi fans are such continuity freaks, we want it all to fit, that's what makes it more real for us.

If you were a real SciFi fan you would have said something like "the paradigm needs to be self-contained within it's own continuum." ;)

Re:Great 4.5 Year Show, Weak Ending (3, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288705)

"about the characters"

I found it rather frustrating sitting through all the backstory stuff, like the drunk driving accident and boy toy one nighter causing Laura to join a campaign -- rather dull and not really that important at this stage of the game.

Re:Great 4.5 Year Show, Weak Ending (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288741)

What you said. And in all honesty, I don't want to watch anything else Ron Moore has a hand in writing, I'll just be setting myself up for disappointment.

Ronald D Moore is the American Russell T Davies.

Re:Great 4.5 Year Show, Weak Ending (4, Interesting)

nine-times (778537) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288813)

Yeah, what I found kind of disappointing was that, even knowing it was coming to an end, they seemed to falter. If the last episode had seemed cobbled together last-minute because they were informed a couple months before that the series was being cancelled, it would have been more understandable. But they knew for years, and basically had a whole extra year to prepare after the writer's strike.

I enjoyed the plot of the mutiny and some of the other things that happened near the end, but given that those plots didn't go very far, it seems like a bit of a waste when they could have spent that time wrapping things up.

To me, probably the most disappointing thing was how they wrapped up the opera house dream. What? All those dreams and all that worry about them, and it was just that Caprica and Baltar were supposed to carry Hera 20 feet down a hall? That's retarded. At the very least, I think they should have killed of Helo and Athena and had Baltar and Caprica end up rescuing and then raising Hera. It would have explained them ending up with Hera at the end of the dream, as well as the Head-Caprica telling Baltar that Hera was their daughter.

In general, I've been impressed with the writing on BSG, but the finale is yet more evidence that writers should have an endgame roughly planned from the beginning. The ending wasn't bad so much as it felt unplanned and inelegant, tacked on and not fitting to the rest of the series. Worse yet, the message of the finale seemed to be that God has a very elegant plan for us all, so having that message come in an inelegant and unplanned form makes for a bad kind of irony.

Harbinger of Death? (1)

hemp (36945) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288437)

Starbuck was called several times the harbinger of death.

Death of what?

Also, was she always an Angel? Or did she just become one after she died? Who was her father?

Re:Harbinger of Death? (3, Informative)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288535)

Harbinger of death to the Cylons. Remember it was always the hybrids that called her that.

Re:Harbinger of Death? (1)

RightwingNutjob (1302813) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288569)

Starbuck was called several times the harbinger of death.

Death of what?

It's always the Cylons who called her that. The death of the Cylons would be a good guess.

Disappointed in the ending? (5, Insightful)

orkybash (1013349) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288477)

Originally posted this over on Bear McCreary's blog, but I think I'll use it here too...

I think most people who complain about the finale not meeting their expectations are the people whose expectations included a cereberal explanation for everything that happened on the show. And I'll admit, I was hoping for a little more in that arena. But in terms of emotional wrap-up and as a fitting send-off to the show, I thought it couldn't have done better.

To people who wanted every mystery tied up nice and neat, I hate to break it to you but it was never that kind of show. Moore has said from the beginning that certain supernatural aspects wouldn't be explained.

Go watch Lost or something.

Why the "goodriddance" tag? (0, Offtopic)

hellfire (86129) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288491)

Yanno, I'm not a fanboi of BSG, but I do like it, and feel it's one of the best sci-fi series in a long time. And yet if the show isn't the pinnacle of art, the naysayers on this site come out and get ready to shitcan it. It's unbelievable. If you don't like it, it's fine, don't watch it. But do you have to assassinate it? Criticism is welcome, but if you try to bury it, you aren't going to get more sci-fi series of any quality, just more horror-sci-fi schlock and ghosthunter bullshit that gives the scifi channel the "cheapo paranormal crappy station." Constructive criticism is welcome, but can we cut the crap please?

PS: This is why I hate tags, are they really any useful or are they just a means of entertaining the ultra-sardonic and cynical?

Obviously we will see a Cylons attack Earth Movie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288501)

right? obviously?

In a world...
150,000 years later the cylons finally find the remains of the human race.

------
The series ending was good considering the previous 20-30ish episodes were pretty bad.

The series started off good and ended nicely (though the last episode may only SEEM good in comparison to the previous REALLY bad last 10 episodes - brushing teeth scenes up the wazoo!) - it was just the middle that the writers ruined.

I was slightly dissapointed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288505)

...when Adama stepped into the shower and realized it was all just a dream...

Mark Edwards
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request

10 Highlights for those who haven't seen it (5, Funny)

Nova Express (100383) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288531)

  1. Baltar constructing his intelligence-enhancing monolith on the plains of Africa.
  2. All 12 Cylon models doing their big Bollywood-esque song and dance number in the central chamber of Cavel's Colony. (Great move snagging Josh Whedon to direct this bit!)
  3. The kick-ass Centurians-vs.-Stormtrooper's fight.
  4. After Kara finishes playing "All Along the Watchtower," she goes into an awesome 9-minute extended version of "Freebird."
  5. The Cylons inventing the science of psychohistory, then creating a secret foundation to shape human destiny.
  6. The smoking hot Boomer-on-Athena lesbian sex scene (can't wanted for the unrated DVD version!)
  7. Doc Cottle's tearful reunion with his long lost wife, Eunice.
  8. Chief Tyrol telling Adama why he can't heal one of the wounded Fours: "I'm a engineer, not a doctor!"
  9. Adama punching Baltar in the face for about five minutes straight.
  10. Starbuck becoming the Starchild.

Re:10 Highlights for those who haven't seen it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288573)

I wish this was true :(

Re:10 Highlights for those who haven't seen it (1)

isj (453011) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288611)

They must have dropped the scene with the thermonuclear sharks.
I was looking forward to that.

Loved almost everything but the shaky camera work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288539)

I loved BSG almost entirely, though especially during the first two seasons the show had some lows, but one thing that I always will hate no matter what stupid justification is given for its adoption is the shaky camera action. It doesn't give any sensation of deeper reality or what else. Whoever says it emulates our head movements when we look at a scene is an idiot who knows nothing about the way our neck muscles damp the oscillations to offer a more steady sight.
Parkinson cameras are a stupid craze of the early 00's, with no actual usefulness other than doing something for the sake of being different, surely not better, so please stop using them. Thanks.

[/rant]

This has all happened before... (2, Insightful)

LaminatorX (410794) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288559)

I liked how the end of the new BSG came back around to the opening line of the intro from the old BSG:

"There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans..."

"B" Ark Galactica (5, Funny)

EEBaum (520514) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288571)

I couldn't help but see the parallels to the "B" Ark. Heck, there was even a bathtub on the bridge!

Re:"B" Ark Galactica (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288727)

ROFL, bravo! Jynnan Tonnyx for everyone!

The ending in a nutshell... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288575)

God did it

Where now to turn for your self-loathing fix? (1)

BemoanAndMoan (1008829) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288627)

Lurching from pure melodrama to plain old post-apocalyptic drudgery, I watched for a) the hot Cylons and b) the all too rare space booms. While I usually like Ronald Moore's work, there was so much self-indulgent self-pity and self-loathing for anything but "Tivo on, fast-forward engaged".

And any writer who has to turn to Deus Ex Machina to resolve a story should be spanked severely. Of course the writing was on the walls and in the context of the story from the beginning, but why must it always be God who solves the really big problems? I would have preferred to have seen the external influence turn out to be internalized somehow, even perhaps some new, third factor introduced near the end, like a "gestalt intelligence formed over the cycles between humans and Cylons" that was fighting for its own survival as well. At least that's honest and 'real', and ultimately resolved without resorting to cosmic super-powers.

In the end the message is that we can't survive without God's intervention, which is as dreary a message as I've ever seen in any medium ... and only means it's his fault anyway and we just sat through four seasons of His crappy technical support.

--

Anybody who believes in Intelligent Design should stay out of the medical profession.

More than 2.4 million people (5, Insightful)

juanjux (125739) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288633)

2.4 million people tuned in for the finale.

And probably five times that figure downloaded the torrent outside the USA. I wish a system to pay for the chapters outside USA, at a reasonable price and with good subtitules were in place; I would use it.

cop out ending (1)

stim (732091) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288711)

I have been lurking several discussions on the final and I have absolutely fell in love with this outrage over being unable to "believe" a supernatural force was driving things. The show was about robots who became human and flew around in spaceships at faster than light speeds. Protip: Nothing in the show was believable.

I didn't like the ending (2, Interesting)

gsn (989808) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288715)

I dislike using god and a hokey religion as an explanation for anything. I couldn't stand the last few episodes with Baltar babbling on about his angels. The show has always had a religious theme but I held out for a reasonable rational explanation of the head characters (something to do with cylon projection) and Kara.

Instead pooft she magically disappears into thin air, after magically entering the coordinates of a single magic planet in all of space from a magic song that her magically disappearing dad taught her when she was young and that Hera magically happens to know as well. How? What? Why?

I disliked the get rid of all our technology and live like the natives bit. Both the god explanation and the luddite attitude seem to me to be a diservice to many science fiction fans who overwhelmingly like science and technology and reject hokey explanations for things like flying spaghetti monsters. Seriously, what happens the next time someone needs to get a tooth pulled now that all their technology is gone.

I disliked the Cavil suicide bit because it seemed out of character along with actually listening to Baltar's stupid little speech on coexistence and angels. I'd like Boomer's redemption to not have been followed with her getting shot in the gut again. I didn't need to see Adama puking.

And finally, Tyrol is an idiot for not realizing that killing Cally was the nicest thing Tory or anyone else in the entire fleet did for him.

Re:I didn't like the ending (1)

stonedcat (80201) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288747)

Cavil's suicide was in all likelihood a control issue.
He was obsessive about having control of everything and when it became clear to him that he no longer
had any control and that he was going to die for sure, he wanted to make sure it was on his terms.

Clarke's Third Law (5, Insightful)

Nebulious (1241096) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288745)

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

The 'higher power' in Battlestar is probably not a divine entity, but a remnant of the ancient society of Kobal that wants to see humanity survive. This chessmaster knew what it was doing though, so it's origin and motives are never explicitly stated.

No tech? (5, Insightful)

ardor (673957) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288761)

Lee's conclusion made no sense. The situation was already good for another try. I mean, Cylons and Humans were at peace, so rebuilding a Human-Cylon civilization was a possibility. The rebel cylons and the humans were truly allied, and even the Centurions weren't enemies anymore. They had first-hand knowledge of what happens when they don't treat artificial lifeforms as equals AND a chance at rebuilding a hybrid civilization from scratch, therefore breaking the cycle of death. (Honestly, with this shiny advanced Cylon tech and the sturdy, tough Colonial tech, that would have been one hell of a civilization.)

Instead, they threw it all away, and opted to become cavemen. This is the equivalent of running away from the problem. The final minutes demonstrated this. With all Colonial and Cylon knowledge lost, WE are now doomed to repeat these mistakes, since the problem still is unresolved. The only true way of breaking the cycle is for society to acknowledge that artificial lifeforms are not of lesser status.

It's finally over? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27288779)

Thank god.

All those alcoholics gave up liquor? (4, Funny)

DebianDog (472284) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288793)

All those alcoholics gave up liquor? I DON'T THINK SO!!!

As much as that crew drank. I seriously doubt that "let's live as caveman" would have been seen as a solution. The epic DT's, Adama alone, would have to endure could be a spinoff show.

Surely the natives are friendly! (4, Funny)

EEBaum (520514) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288819)

Such a lovely idea, integrating with the native peoples. Surely they will welcome the strange newcomers with open arms, rather than with spears through their intestines.

Fraking epic ending... with a dash of WTF (1)

linebackn (131821) | more than 5 years ago | (#27288853)

Over all I thought it was probably the best ending they could have given it. The "making of" special they had really clarified it as being more "about the character" than anything else. I had been following BSG just because it was one of the few things on TV any more that was even vaguely interesting although I was disgusted how the entire conflict evolved in to some religious BS. (fiction is the appropriate place for religion since religion is all made up, but I cringe at how many people actually take that nonsense literally)

Anyway, I had actually expected something bigger, or more grand from the "Final five" plot line. But they way that ended really did "fit" this BSG - across life, death, and thousands of years, and it all ends in one big clusterfrak.

The entire thing about giving up their technology seemed kind of WTF-ish but it was obviously the only way they could make it "fit" in to the time line. I could sort of imagine the people not wanting to do the same thing of creating a city again after the mess on New Caprica, and most of those ships were probably pretty ripe and unlivable after all that time, but not salving tech from them would be crazy.

More importantly because of this, what they did was end their civilization! What is the point of biological survival if history, technology, forms of government, and other cultural things are not maintained or at least remembered?

"Repeat to yourself It's just a show, I should really just relax..." :)

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